iona-digest Wednesday, October 8 1997 Volume 97 : Number 013 . _ _ _ |(_)| )(_| mailto:musictus@musictus.com Discussion List (digest) http://www.gospel.it/iona/ _______________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 13:44:43 -0700 From: Ron Lindeboom Subject: iona Re: Bill Fogtman's Brazil Observations >Bill Fogtman said: >Just got back this week from the Amazon... >I got to thinking: how is it possible that the illuminated >individuals that give us this great music are the same ones that would >not (?) acknowledge Ron's contribution to their project, with his >website and listserv, that would in the end result in an implicitly >bitter farewell post from Ron on Aug. 12. No, I am not bitter at Iona. But do I think that they are in need of some growing up? Undoubtedly and would I say so, yes, as I have tried repeatedly to reconcile this and all to no avail. But as to disliking them, I just finished a four page article on the band that will appear in the next issue of ''Progression'' magazine. Does that sound like I am "bitter" about my work with Iona? I even paid for the first Progression full-page ad out of my own pocket -- and that, after pulling the Iona web stuff down. Does *that* sound like I am bitter towards them? My reasons for my departure had to do with manners, plain and simple -- unlike Andrew Nainby's incorrect assumption that it has to do with chilling US/UK relations. In a half-hour phone call with Dave Bainbridge today (after reading these posts and knowing I had to respond somewhat at least), I told him the same thing. Following are a few of the things that Mr. Bainbridge and I discussed: Iona was in some real straights in 1995 and 1996, and didn't even have the money to make tour t-shirts when they came over to Cornerstone 96. So my wife and I designed them (the '''JITM' tour 96'' full color T's) and paid for them so that the band could sell them and have money to eat, etc., while they were here in the USA. You see, it looked as if in 1996 that the band wasn't going to be able to come over due to their money being tied up in litigation with a former business agent. So my wife and I called Cindy Spear-Polley and Kathy Bunker (USA Mgr.) and told them to let the band know that we would get them the money so they could come over. In the end, they didn't need our help with the plane fare but once they got here, they were just too busy to pick up the phone and call...ever. (Even though we were pressing hard towards the finish of the ''Irish Day'' video (something else they had no money to do) and had put in by that point hundreds and hundreds of hours into it, all free of charge. Boy, was that ever a lesson on what *not* to do!) I understand that the band was busy. And believe me, I do not expect them to grovel at my feet and say, "Oh, great one, we are your slaves!" But I do expect a little common courtesy, something that I feel is owed strangers let alone those who stand in fires with you... Does this mean that I am angry at Iona (read: Dave Bainbridge)? No. I do not hate him at all. In fact I have the greatest admiration for him but I still believe that he has some areas of growing up to do just as I am ready to point to my own failings in this matter and see where I have my own faults. In our phone call, Dave admitted that he was mad at me for not delivering the Irish Day video. I explained to him that by the time it was finally getting completed (after serious equipment failures and a prolonged bout of flu that later turned into a case of viral pneumonia), their record company called and said that the band wasn't pleased with the way it was being done artistically. I looked at my wife after getting off the phone and said: "Enough is enough. I am not about to re-edit this thing and it can just vaporize for all I care!" Dave Bainbridge told me this morning that that was simply not true, and that the band liked the video. He said that he was angry at me about the loss of the video and that I should have called. I told him that I had called Kathy Bunker (Iona's USA manager) and relayed all of this to her. She assured me that she relayed it to Bainbridge. But no call ever came, just as time has repeatedly taught me to expect. The loss of the video created quite a bad situation for Iona whose ''3Cord'' label distributor in the UK had apparently negotiated airings, etc., and were gearing up for its arrival (I learned today). But considering that I was very sick at that point -- and yet would have still fought to finish it were it not for all of the preceding reasons/feelings - -- I chose to abandon the project, after 3Cord called and said that "Iona didn't like the video because it wasn't like most of the videos they had seen and it didn't move and jump around a lot." Bainbridge assured me that the band had never said any such thing and that they were really upset when it didn't arrive as expected. "You should have called us," Dave said this morning. "I let Kathy Bunker know what my feelings were and she let you know. Dave, after all I had done for you guys, you could have at least picked up the phone and called me," I said in reply. He was silent. By that time, I had at least $70,000 minimum into the video and were I to have sold it to anyone else's record company, the production contract would have been in the $100,000 plus price range. You see, this is my business and this was no garage hack-job project. The final insult came when the HBS album came out and there was no mention of the web activities anywhere on the album. "The band members voted against that as they were not comfortable with the list discussions," said Dave about that. "The religiousness of it was not something that we felt reflected Iona." To that, I agreed with him 100% and said that I had worked hard to get the list to understand that Iona did a better job of telling their story than the less lyrical and rough hewn attempts that often greeted non-Christians on the list. He said he knew that but that they simply were not interested in the Internet at this time and felt that it was best to stay off it. He then admitted that Kathy Bunker had relayed to him that I had pulled down all of the website and the listserv. Still the phone didn't ring and to quote Jimmy Buffett: "If the phone doesn't ring; it's me!" He added again that he was mad at me for the video and that the band was apathetic at the loss of the website/list. What's the bottomline in all of this? The Bible says not to lean on the arm of flesh as it will fail you. Amen. All of us are human and will fail each other even though we do not intend to do so. I told Dave that I was very sorry that I didn't finish the video. (Nic Caciappo saw it and it was killer, eh, Nic?) I told him that based on the feedback I received, I just felt that ''pandering to prima donnas'' was not my idea of an effective use of my time -- especially considering what I was facing healthwise, etc. Still, not once and nowhere in the conversation did Dave ever apologize for anything -- even though I apologized to him on several occasions -- something which surprized me greatly. As we said goodbye, I wished him and Debbie well with their upcoming child (due in four weeks). I told him that I wished him and the band the best and that I doubted I would have any reason to speak to him in the future. He was uncomfortable and said that we will speak again someday. Well, considering all that I had done for the band which never merited a call before, I doubt that my phone will ring anytime soon. After all, ''If the phone doesn't ring; it's me!'' ;) Sorry to crush your idol. But the truth is, the vision is God's; always was and always will be. We hold the treasure in earthen vessels, so the the glory will be clearly seen to belong to the Father of Lights. Do I love Iona? Undoubtedly yes. Does that mean that I have to be blind to the shortcomings there? Absolutely not. Would I help them in any way that is available to me? That's pretty obvious considering the upcoming Progression article. But that does not mean that I have to act like some archangels got dumped on Planet Earth and are masquerading under the name of a band called Iona. Truth is, they are not all that different from the ''common folk'' who frequent this list... >I'd really appreciate some insight from anyone >caring enough to share their thoughts on the matter. > >Bill Fogtman in Brazil Well, I wouldn't have posted this except that there was no reconciliation made after repeated attempts and a final one today. (I was hoping to be able to post something far more positive than that and that was the reason for my call today.) Based on these repeated attempts, I feel that I am on safe biblical grounds in airing out only a few of the real reasons behind things as they went. Not worshipping angels, Ron Lindeboom Media Worldwide Teaching Digital Video & Animation http://www.wwug.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 14:39:39 -0700 From: Ron Lindeboom Subject: Re: iona /Ron, etc. >Wes in Wellborn, Texas wrote: >Something we might want to consider is that perhaps the members of Iona are >not big on self promotion and are therefore not likely to be appreciative of >Ron's or anyone else's efforts to expand their audience. In modern music >there are those who gravitate toward being artists and those who gravitate >toward being entertainers. The artists generally care about producing an >innovative product that reflects their soul, while entertainers wish to >provide enjoyment for as many people as they possibly can. Iona, who >obviously lean more toward the artist category, probably care more about the >purity of their music than the number of people who listen to it. They must >care about numbers to some extent, or else they couldn't make a living, but >I think it must be of secondary importance to them. I certainly can't speak >for Iona, but I think this might be a possiblity, and it might explain their >lack of support for Ron. > >I certainly don't wish to diminish Ron's great efforts. My hat is off to >him for his wonderful work. Thanks for your kind words, Wes. I appreciate them, especially considering some which I was confronted with in this latest batch of emails! ;) Your words reflect an Iona that exists in the imaginations of many of us. I, too, once thought that Iona didn't wish to expand their market but that is simply not the case. They wish to do just that and have even posted some ideas that I once discussed with Dave Bainbridge in one of their newsletters. I was going to create a site once called "Prog Central" which was going to be a blatant way to stand Iona shoulder-to-shoulder alongside bands like King Crimson, Genesis, Renaissance, Camel and Marillion as well as the others of the genre. Dave loved the idea, that's why it appeared in the newsletter. Audience is important to Iona. But would they compromise their integrity to increase it? I do not believe so. Listen folks, I may have differences of opinion with Iona regarding the definition of manners but I have sincere respect for them. Does that mean that I think they are faultless as some here seem to believe? Hardly. But what in the world do you think motivates me to still do things for Iona -- things that most here criticizing weren't even willing to put up a few bucks a month for to underwrite the list when mine ran out... Wes, I thank you for your kind words. Ron Lindeboom Media Worldwide Teaching Digital Video & Animation http://www.wwug.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 17:24:35 -0700 From: Sarah Subject: iona Re: list Hello Everyone, It is great to be back on the list serve again. Walter has been very patient with me and has worked extra diligently to send me the lists, starting with #9, as I had problems receiving the digests. It is wonderful recognizing the addresses of those familiar to me from the old list Ron worked so hard to keep going for so long. Is there a place out there where I can find Teri Bryant's CD which I understand has been released? I have not been able to find it at all. However, when I was in Los Angeles before taking a recent trip to Montreal with my father I did see a copy of HBS at Virgin Records. What a delight to find it is available in a mainstream store. As for my favorite Iona song I think it has to be Changes. Cheers, Sarah Perelli-Minetti Bakersfield, California ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 09:34:49 +1000 From: "S.Ross" Subject: iona Aussie Info. Hello All, It's been a long time since I responded to the list but Daniel Payne's post spurred my interest. To Daniel and all the other Aussies on the list, HBS is available from Koorong Bookstores in Aus.; list price AUD$44.95. (And you Americans complain at the price of your CD's!! (BTW, most single CD's here are AUD$29.95!)) Koorong's address in Melbourne is 6-8 Vicki St, Blackburn South, 3130 or find them at www.koorong.com.au. As for air conditioning, no, not everywhere here has it: we love our sun and summer! :-) It's true, some venues NEED it but I guess it's up to the band to be more disciminating when it comes to choosing venues (imagine what would happen if Elton John were advertised appearing at the local pub!). I'm sure Iona will continue to 'wow the crowds' at any venue (I doubt, though, they'll ever make here!) but I would like to mention that we remember the band are not 'divine creatures' sent from Heaven for us to worship; they are humans who are using their talents to spread the Message in a special way. We should enjoy it; be moved by it and realise the Power behind it. They're allowed to have the occasional 'off' night (and strange personal opinions.). To finish off; my Top Five: Inside My Heart Journey Into The Morn Murlough Bay Divine Presence I Will Give My Love An Apple. As you can see, I love good lyrics! Regards to all, Steve. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 23:00:02 -0700 From: Dennis Reulbach Subject: Re: iona Huge Iona Feature in next ''Progression'' Ron Lindeboom wrote: > Just wanted to let you know that ''Progression'' magazine (an awesome 84 > page quarterly in the USA) is featuring a 4 page article in the next issue > that looks at the entire career of Iona to date... Hi Ron, and good to hear from you again. Please inform the list how to get Progression magazine. Is it available in stores? (I've never noticed it). If so, what type of store - music store, big record chains (e.g. Tower Records), larger bookstores (e.g. Barnes & Noble)??? Or is it available through some other channel? For us "die-hard" prog rock fans, do you have a subscription address? Regarding your other recent postings, I'm glad you cleared up the matter for us. I would guess that many (myself included) were mystified at the way your Iona webpage and listserv ended, and the last several Emails you sent to us back then. I assume that you wanted to avoid "bad mouthing" the band and kept a lot to yourself, though obviously you were wronged after much personal time and financial expense (not to mention your health). I know that the silence of the "real reasons" could only lead to speculation, much of which was kept silent to ourselves and some of which (unfortunately) was posted. I guess this is another human quality we all have - a need for "closure." I hoped for a long time for some resolution to this matter. You provided it today, though I admit it was a bit painful to hear the truth. It would be interesting to also hear Iona's (Dave's?) side, too, though I guess they are not listserv members. (IMHO, artists should never look at or listen to discussions by the "general public" about their works - or even "professional" critics for that matter. Other people's interpretations of their works will *rarely* match what the artist was thinking. But then again, that's part of the beauty of art - that it can be personally interpretted so many ways by different viewers.) In a way, it's good to know that Iona are human, too! Their work is such a reflection of God that it is easy to lose sight that they too, like all of us, are sinners and fall short of the glory of God. That's why Jesus came, right? The Bible is full of stories of sinners that God used to show forth His glory: Moses was a murderer, David an adulterer, and Saul (aka Paul) persecuted the early Christians. Yet look at the amazing things God did through them. God's message in all of this is clear - none of us is perfect, yet when we listen to and obey God's will, great things can happen. Keep focused on the Message, and its Sender, not on the message carrier. What a shame about the Irish Day video. I'm sure it is a treasure, and it would've been great to see your work on something like this! And Nic, we are ALL envious that you got to view it! Peace to all. Yours in Christ, Dennis +++ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 23:24:35 -0700 From: Dennis Reulbach Subject: iona Top Five Oh yeah, I never put in my Top Five vote. I thought the original request was for the "top five" from off of the HBS live album. My choices here would be: 1. Flight of the Wild Goose - love this new rendition of my original favorite Iona song. 2. Today - never used to listen to this song much, but it meant so much to me during the 1997 tour that I had to mention it. Also the 700 Club live video performance of this song (did everyone see it?) 3. I Will Give My Love an Apple - on the list because it is new, and a very haunting version of this tarditional song. 4. Bi-se I Mo Shuil, part 2 - my favorite Iona song since JITM came out. Love the 11/8 part, and the new live ending (despite the "flub" - anyone else notice?) 5. Reels - this rocks live! Who can sit still for this one, huh?? ;-) Nice arrangement by Troy. A number of people seem to have responded with their 5 favorite Iona songs from anywhere (HBS and studio albums). Here's my list of top 5 ever Iona songs: 1. Bi-se I Mo Shuil, part 2. 2. Encircling. (*incredible* live during the 1996 U.S. tour). 3. Revelation. 4. Kells, part 2. 5. Treasure. For this question, "five" is too short of a list! I left a lot of "favorites" off. Yours in Christ, Dennis +++ West Milford, New Jersey, USA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 23:47:52 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baxter Subject: iona for seekers... Just wanted to say that I concur wholeheartedly with Andrew Nainby's post. Selfishly, I want Iona to come back to the States, so that I may bring some dear friends to experience them live. But thinking about it, I want Iona to do exactly what the Lord leads them to do. And this may very well be to minister to the UK, at least for the moment. Perhaps they will be led to minister to us in person, but for now, the albums are such a blessing. I also agree that Iona's timeless, "ancient/futuristic" style will be a wonderful vehicle to lead seekers drawn to the new age movement to the Truth of Christ our Lord. Someone said that people outside the "Christian club" will be drawn to them by the sheer musicianship. And the Holy Spirit will do the rest... Maybe I said this before, but I'm thankful to be alive at a time when musicians such as Iona and Enya are creating such incredible music. John 3:16 John Baxter NextLevel Systems jbaxter@voicenet.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 21:22:40 -0700 From: Nic Subject: Re: iona Huge Iona Feature in next ''Progression'' Dennis Reulbach wrote: > > What a shame about the Irish Day video. I'm sure it is a treasure, and > it would've been great to see your work on something like this! And > Nic, we are ALL envious that you got to view it! I only wished I had a copy to own and keep for myself! I believe it would have been played on Praise TV over and over again, if not even VH-1 !!!!! Oh well, at least I can remember it..... Nic ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 21:49:35 -0700 From: Nic Subject: iona Off Iona: McCartney Standing Stone Hello everyone, I think you all should drop what you're doing right now and go out and buy the new Celtic/Orchestral CD from Paul McCartney, "Standing Stone". This is Orchestral, Symphonic, Classical, Instrumental and Celtic. There are some choral parts, and very beautiful. If you heard the "Liverpool Oratorio" and didn't like it, "Standing Stone" is much better! It's number #1 on the Billboard Classical chart. In my opinion, it's the best CD released this year! By the way, for those of you who are Christian believers, I understand that Paul McCartney has seriously taken to Christianity, and attends church on Sundays at a Calvary Chapel near or in London. Maybe there's something to this "Standing Stone", as the story is based on the origins of life. Nic ------------------------------ End of iona-digest V97 #13 ************************** ______________ To unsubscribe send an e-mail command to musictus@musictus.com In the body of the message type ONLY the following: unsubscribe iona-digest or visit http://www.gospel.it/iona/mailingl.html