iona-digest Saturday, October 4 1997 Volume 97 : Number 010 . _ _ _ |(_)| )(_| mailto:musictus@musictus.com Discussion List (digest) http://www.gospel.it/iona/ _______________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 02:28:04 -0700 From: Bill Fogtman Subject: iona Iona Hi Folks, Just got back this week from the Amazon, and it was good to catch up reading all the mail from the listserv and seeing that things are finally back to normal, after all the time spent in cyber-purgatory when Ron's list closed. During my trip, I had on my walkman tapes of all 5 Iona CDs, Terl's Psalm, and some Echolyn and vintage PFM (Italian '70s prog group) as counterpoint. I would listen mostly to Iona in my hammock on the long, hot, mosquito-plagued nights, and what peace and well-being the music would bring me. It never ceases to amaze me how fittingly appropriate Iona's music is in the forest and on the river. This is an experience I highly recommend to all, if you ever make it down to Brazil. Then, I would get to thinking: how is it possible that the illuminated individuals that give us this great music are the same ones that would not (?) acknowledge Ron's contribution to their project, with his website and listserv, that would in the end result in an implicitly bitter farewell post from Ron on Aug. 12. For some reason I cannot get this off my mind, especially when I check my email for Iona posts. I realize this is a delicate subject, perhaps even taboo(?) for most of us, and that all the newbies on Walter's list are probably not aware of what I'm talking about, but the fact is that I'm still a ittle traumitized by this, and I'd really appreciate some insight from anyone caring enough to share their thoughts on the matter. On to happier things... I found it impossible to list just 5 songs, so I came up with 3 alternate lists: My 5 favorite Iona vocal songs (in order of appearance): Vision of Naran Chi-Rho Healing Inside My Heart Bi-Se Mo Shuil - Part II My 5 favorite Iona instrumental/vocal songs (in order of appearance): White Sands Matthew - The Man Brendan's Voyage (Navigatio) Bird of Heaven Encircling My 5 favorite Iona inspirational songs (in order of appearance): Iona John - The Eagle Lindisfarne Heaven's Bright Sun Flight of the Wild Goose (HBS/live - my undisputed all-around favorite!) Sorry if I cheated here, but listing favorites in his way DOES make the choices a little easier, don't you think? I also have a demo tape with all the above and some others, that I give copies of to friends here in Brazil. No positive feedback as yet. Most Brazilians are deeply into their own popular music, and have take an almost fanatic nationalistic pride in defending it against foreign invasions, of which IONA would just be one more. A typical reaction, when I'm asked what type of music Iona plays (note: I hate classifying music) - Celtic/Folk/Christian/Prog? - never heard of it! Enya? Oh, is that what it's like... no, but... aw, forget it! So, as far as I know, I am STILL the only Iona fan in BR. If there is anybody else on this list from Brazil, please speak out! Tchau for now, Bill in Brazil ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 11:15:23 -0500 From: Mark Eblen Subject: iona Re: Bill and thoughts on Ron Bill wrote: >Then, I would get to thinking: how is it possible that the illuminated >individuals that give us this great music are the same ones that would >not (?) acknowledge Ron's contribution to their project, with his >website and listserv, that would in the end result in an implicitly >bitter farewell post from Ron on Aug. 12. For some reason I cannot get >this off my mind, especially when I check my email for Iona posts. I >realize this is a delicate subject, perhaps even taboo(?) for most of >us, and that all the newbies on Walter's list are probably not aware of >what I'm talking about, but the fact is that I'm still a ittle >traumitized by this, and I'd really appreciate some insight from anyone >caring enough to share their thoughts on the matter. Bill: This may anger some people but I will post my opinion on the subject. I am limited in knowledge of the facts but have made certain deductions and assumptions and have my own opinion right or wrong. I too was troubled by Ron's post and the whole situation. The more I reviewed and thought about it I came to the following conclusion. Iona did not ask for Ron to do what he did. They owe him no thanks or special recognition since they did not solicit, encourage or support Ron's efforts. I do not think that Ron's motives were pure in his efforts. He did not want to "just share Iona" with other people. I believe he saw it as a way in to the business and a way to make contacts. It did not work out that way. Iona was not drawn into a relationship that they did not seek. As an artist I would not want individuals setting up "official sites" without my input and control. His anger and refusal to allow the new web sites to use material that he had accumulated revealed his heart on the matter. Ron has much bitterness. He did some excellent work but either from the beginning or at some point in the process his motives became self-serving. It is a shame because he did by implication cast a shadow on the I hope that this gives you some food for thought and maybe a little peace about the matter. Mark E Denton, TX ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 17:13:14 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) From: Frank Blades Subject: iona Re; Firkin Iona Gig, Bristol > Tonights Iona concert was held in a converted wool > warehouse in Bristol, UK. Yup, I managed to make it too. Apparently this was the band's third attempt at playing here. Last year's was one of the cancelled UK gigs. Joanne reckoned that it was three years since they had played Bristol. > Unfortunately due to circumstances beyond their control > Iona arrived late Luckily for me, I too was late and arrived half an hour after the doors were supposed to open...to a long queue!!! Never happens at the Fleece. Impressed me - and slightly worried me, as I did not have a ticket. I could not imagine that Iona had THAT big a following in this prog-desert we call Bristol. But we all got in: christians, students, aging hippies, and me and my pals. Although Iona did not sell out, I reckon 300 in a 400-capacity venue on a Thursday night is pretty impressive. Beats the crowd of eight at the last gig I went to:( > Iona took to the stage with... no support band?!? Bit miffed at that. surely there are up-and-coming bands who would love to have a shot at 300 Firkin music lovers. > ...a very muted response from the audience I would not say that this was a crowd of die-hard Iona fans - - although I felt that the band themselves were really lethargic. They came on stage and Joanna made a very pathetic and negative "sorry you had to wait" speech, and then they just started playing. It was hardly a rip-roaring way to open the gig. I felt that throughout the night there was minimal interaction with the crowd, and as a result maybe the "non-believers" did not warm to them. Okay, so you can say that they let the music do the talking, but I was disappointed with the whole band's stage presence. Is that normal? > ...the arrogance of one small bunch of students... Bristol students arrogant? Never happens;-) > ...concentration must have been nearer that of a goldfish than a human being... Erm, I know some very erudite goldfishes, if you don't mind! > Troy even offered to remove his trousers and perform in > his underwear at one point. But despite the great > enthusiasm for this novel approach... ...he wimped out!!!! > As a result when Iona took to the stage for a > second time, the audience was completely different. It > was lively and appreciative. I agree. The second half was much more up-beat and lively - and I don't think it was just the music. There seemed to be a much warmer response from the crowd, and the bands took heart from it. In saying that the second half had more gems in it (IMHO) > This was followed by another all time classic > "Lindisfarne". This track was almost beyond belief and > must be heard live to be appreciated. Absolutely superb. > The set was due to be closed (according to the set list > at Joannes feet) by "Reels", and what an absolutely > stompin version we were treated too. The band had the > audience in the palm of their hands as they carried them > along with wild enthusiasm. Left me breathless! > Unfortunately it was at this point that time was called > on my visit, and I had to leave but according to the set > list they should also then have played "When I Survey". Yeah, they closed with "When I Survey". > Here are a group of musicians truly using God's gift > of music to the full. As long as we can agree to disagree about the "God's gift" bit, I echo those comments. Iona's musicianship is absolutely superb. Okay, so we have all seen fast fretwork, fast pipes and woodwind - but what Iona manage to do is mesh the whole thing together wonderfully. Okay, so the likes of Yes and Galadriel manage to mesh music together so that you forgot the individual elements - but Iona somehow manage to combine superb speed and dexterity with musical intricacy. At one point we had all three frontmen hammering out three harmonic melodies at a furious tempo - and not a bum note between them. Most bands could not manage that in the studio - no matter how many takes! Joanna's voice is excellent too. Again it works as good live as it sounds on record. Bass and drums? Well, nothing special I felt; but they pound out a rhythm which keeps the music bounding along. > If you have'nt seen this band live before, make sure that > you do at the very earliest opportunity. If you have seen > them before - go see them again. Yup - ditto! > I hope this is OK and will give you at least some of the > feel of the evening. I'm sure others will have a > different perspective on the evening, but this is > my own "personal" feelings as I write some 12 hours later. It is strange to listen to all you Iona-freaks on Iona, then go along to a gig with a group of "normal" folk. There were four of us. One Irish guy had never heard the band before - and was totally non-plussed. Celtic music (perhaps not surprizing) is two-a-penny back in Ulster, and he saw nothing clever about it all. My and my other pal were impressed, but I am afraid not knocked out. We both felt that while the band were giving 100% musically, they looked uninterested for much of the time; only giving anything back to the audience in brief smiles and gestures. The fourth guy was very impressed and raved about it all the way home. I personally felt that maybe the whole set was a bit disjointed. They opened with an up-beat song, and followed it with a slow one, then another up-beat song, then something slower. There was no impetus or build-up to the performance, and I am afraid that When I Survey as a closing number may go down well at the more religious venues, but it was a lousy finale for the secular rock crowd at the Fleece. My verdict is: Musically 100%, Atmospherically 60%. Overall - - a great night out, but not quite a classic IMHO. > Frank - Sorry I missed you there, but hope you enjoyed it > as much as I did. Sorry about the remarks about > students (I know not all students are like this) > but I am just saying it as I found it. My fault about not meeting up. I am afriad my organisational skills are a bit rusty! And student remarks are all prefectly valid - and I speak as a member of the University staff!!! cheers Frank ------------------------------------------------- Frank Blades avebury@geocities.com -------------------------------------------------- Why not check out Alternate View, the UK Progressive Music Webzine at: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/6565 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 10:28:11 -0700 From: Nic Subject: Re: iona Re: Bill and thoughts on Ron Ron did do a lot for Iona. He did a lot to "share" the band to many. He had no other motivation to do that except for his love for the music and the Lord. He is a kind and giving chap, and would do anything for the band. He is not drowning in self-pity or bitterness, he wishes the band well and nothing is preventing him from enjoying the music still. Is he hurt even just a little bit? Sure. Is that wrong? No. You'd feel the same way too if you invested so much time and effort into something you loved so much. Is Iona wrong? I don't know, it's really none of my business. But when someone slams a friend of mine who doesn't deserve the things that are said of him then I have this funny nature about me to want to defend that friend. Whoever you are, don't judge someone, especially if you have no idea of what you're talking about. nicbeat@earthlink.net Mark Eblen wrote: > Bill wrote: > > >Then, I would get to thinking: how is it possible that the illuminated > >individuals that give us this great music are the same ones that would > >not (?) acknowledge Ron's contribution to their project, with his > >website and listserv, that would in the end result in an implicitly > >bitter farewell post from Ron on Aug. 12. For some reason I cannot get > >this off my mind, especially when I check my email for Iona posts. I > >realize this is a delicate subject, perhaps even taboo(?) for most of > >us, and that all the newbies on Walter's list are probably not aware of > >what I'm talking about, but the fact is that I'm still a ittle > >traumitized by this, and I'd really appreciate some insight from anyone > >caring enough to share their thoughts on the matter. > > Bill: > > This may anger some people but I will post my opinion on the subject. I am limited in knowledge of the facts but have made certain deductions and assumptions and have my own opinion right or wrong. > > > mplication cast a shadow on the band. I no longer am troubled by this. I enjoy Iona and I believe that the problem all lay in Ron and not with an "ungrateful" band. Ron should be in our prayers because I feel his last posts revealed a great deal of anger and self pity. Both of those things can consume a person if left unchecked. Correct or not, that is how I see it. If I have offended anyone then you have my apology. > > I hope that this gives you some food for thought and maybe a little peace about the matter. > > Mark E > Denton, TX ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 15:22:22 -0500 (CDT) From: aumc@bihs.net Subject: iona /Ron, etc. Just some thoughts on the Iona / Ron schism... Something we might want to consider is that perhaps the members of Iona are not big on self promotion and are therefore not likely to be appreciative of Ron's or anyone else's efforts to expand their audience. In modern music there are those who gravitate toward being artists and those who gravitate toward being entertainers. The artists generally care about producing an innovative product that reflects their soul, while entertainers wish to provide enjoyment for as many people as they possibly can. Iona, who obviously lean more toward the artist category, probably care more about the purity of their music than the number of people who listen to it. They must care about numbers to some extent, or else they couldn't make a living, but I think it must be of secondary importance to them. I certainly can't speak for Iona, but I think this might be a possiblity, and it might explain their lack of support for Ron. I certainly don't wish to diminish Ron's great efforts. My hat is off to him for his wonderful work. Wes Wellborn, Texas ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 09:17:15 +0200 From: Walter Aresca Subject: iona Non-member submissions Hi folks! I'm happy to see the list is very active! I still have delivery problems sending out some digests, but I hope to fix it very soon. I'm forwarding here two messages sent by Richard Stringer and I take this opportunity to remind everybody once again following: . you MUST send your email from the same email you subscribed to the list or the mail server will not know you and therefore reject the message. . send only text/plain email, ASCII fonts. Do not send Explorer or Netscape Communicator formatted email, nor attachments. . "musictus@musictus.com" and "musictus@musictus.com" are exactly alias. Don't send email to those two addresses as your mail will be sent twice. I wish you a nice weekend! Walter >To: musictus@musictus.com >Subject: BOUNCE musictus@musictus.com: Non-member submission from [Richard Stringer ] >From: Richard Stringer >To: "musictus@musictus.com" , > "'musictus@musictus.com'" > >Subject: RE: iona Re; Firkin Iona Gig, Bristol >Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 19:08:09 +0100 > >Frank blades wrote > >There was no impetus or build-up to the >performance, and I am afraid that When I Survey as a >closing number may go down well at the more religious >venues, but it was a lousy finale for the secular >rock crowd at the Fleece. > >Iona are a Christian band , why ask them to be schizophrenic and wear one >face for secular people and another for believers? >To: musictus@musictus.com >Subject: BOUNCE musictus@musictus.com: Non-member submission from [Richard Stringer ] > >From: Richard Stringer >To: "'musictus@musictus.com'" >Subject: RE: iona Re: Bill and thoughts on Ron >Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 21:42:56 +0100 > >I wasn't connected to the discussion group when the event/s concerned >happened so I will not comment on them. I would suggest given the >feelings that this is stiring up that we pray for all concerned and >leave the discussion off the group. > > >Richard S >London. > > >------ =_NextPart_000_01BCD045.50AA7340 >Content-Type: application/ms-tnef >Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 > >eJ8+IjoUAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 14:10:48 +0200 From: Vaughan Granier Subject: Re: iona Re: Bill and thoughts on Ron Hi, folks Some context : >>Then, I would get to thinking: how is it possible that the illuminated >>individuals that give us this great music are the same ones that would >>not (?) acknowledge Ron's contribution to their project, with his >>website and listserv,... >This may anger some people but I will post my opinion on the subject. I am >limited in knowledge of the facts but have made certain deductions and >assumptions and have my own opinion right or wrong. Thanks for this - it gave me opportunity to think a bit about the thing, and put in place what I consider to be (finally) some cohesive thoughts on the matter. What I say here is not intended either directly or indirectly as a criticism of anyone - I hope it will simply focus us on the truth, and not speculation and rumour. OK. I'm no expert, but I HAVE spoken to Ron, and I have thought long and hard about the spiritual dynamics of what went on there. Here is my - purely subjective - thought on the matter. First, while curiosity is normal, it is unhealthy in this case. All of us, probably, were curious. None of us are rightfully involved at all, so any query is just satisfying our natural, but human, curiosity. Too much satisfaction of our curiosity is simply indulging in gossip. No more, no less. >I too was troubled by Ron's post and the whole situation. The more I >reviewed and thought about it I came to the following conclusion. Iona did >not ask for Ron to do what he did. They owe him no thanks or special >recognition since they did not solicit, encourage or support Ron's efforts. This I agree with, wholeheartedly. >I do not think that Ron's motives were pure in his efforts. He did not want >to "just share Iona" with other people. I believe he saw it as a way in to >the business and a way to make contacts. This I disagree with in the strongest possible terms. Ron is a man of deep integrity, highly energetic and committed to whatever he sets his hand to. His investment in Iona's projects was significant, in terms of the resultant publicity he gave them and the actual cost to himself financially. It is natural to repay any benefit one receives with gratitude, even if it is unsolicited. How many of us have said thank you for something we have received, but did not necessarily ask for? Does the fact that it was not solicited nullify the simple response of "Thank you."? If so, then to stretch the analogy - I did not ask Jesus to die for me - am I excused thereby from gratitude to Him for that act? I think not. >His anger and refusal to allow the new web sites to use material that he had >accumulated revealed his heart on the matter. Ron has much bitterness. Perhaps, and perhaps not. Bitterness is relative - he does not appear so to me. Hurt, yes, and upset, yes. These are natural emotions to a perceived "betrayal". Bitter, I am not so sure. He >did some excellent work but either from the beginning or at some point in the >process his motives became self-serving. This is an assumption, and is in my opinion inaccurate. >It is a shame because he did by implication cast a shadow on the band. I no >longer am troubled by this. I enjoy Iona and I believe that the problem all >lay in Ron and not with an "ungrateful" band. The best possible opinion in this case, is to accept that we do not know enough, and as I have said, it appears to me, perhaps, that both might have erred in their handling of the matter. Iona are also human, fallible, and capable of a mistake. I speculate that maybe they have read all the relevant posts, retraced their steps, and have their own opinion on the matter, even perhaps admitting an error or a lack of gratitude on their part?? Who knows? Certainly not us. And I do not believe a shadow has fallen on the band. >Ron should be in our prayers because I feel his last posts revealed a great >deal of anger and self pity. Both of those things can consume a person if >left unchecked. Correct or not, that is how I see it. If I have offended >anyone then you have my apology. In principle, what is here is true. BUT - Ron should be no more in our prayers than any other person for whom our knowledge of their situation leads us to have COMPASSION for them. Condescending to pray for another because a particular phase of their spiritual walk is, in our opinion, in need of help, borders on a Pharisaical arrogance. COMPASSION leads us to pray for others, not any other thing. In finality - leave well alone. We will all demonstrate our love for both Iona and for Ron, if we choose not to get involved any more in this debate. To thoise who are curious, perhaps it is more appropriate to live with the curiosity than to put another's human frailty through a public meatgrinder. And I am talking both Ron's and Iona's possible frailty here, not singling any one out. Cheers VAUGHAN Go lasa an ghlo/ir De/ cosa/n as do chuid am ata/ caite chuig do thodhchai/, agus go raibh an t-am i la/thair gan sca/th i la/thair A a/illeacht. "May God's glory light a path from your past into your future, and may your present be shadowless in the presence of His beauty." ------------------------------ End of iona-digest V97 #10 ************************** ______________ To unsubscribe send an e-mail command to musictus@musictus.com In the body of the message type ONLY the following: unsubscribe iona-digest or visit http://www.gospel.it/iona/mailingl.html